Last weekend, Flower City Union defeated Michigan Stars FC to win the 2023 National Independent Soccer Association Championship. The team’s first national title in only its second year of existence. Ahead of that match, NISA Commissioner John Prutch made himself available for an extended interview regarding the association. From the recent successes to the multiple issues plaguing NISA over not just the last few months but years.

Protagonist: What do you think is going to happen in the future with this league? And do you think NISA will be sanctioned next year?

John Prutch: So let me deal with the sanctioning first. I think there's a lot of rumors out there that, for some reason, we're not gonna get sanctioning for next year and I’m not sure where all that started. We have a very good relationship with U.S. Soccer at the highest levels and we’re actually working on a couple projects together, that have a direct impact on our direction and what we're doing.

I don't look at that as a real issue. I don't preoccupy myself with it because of the relationship that we have with U.S. Soccer. So I don't know how the rumor started. But, you know, once they're out there, they're out there.

But if I look at this year, and I look at next year, we're making some adjustments. We've got a NISA Nation National Championship match coming up the first weekend in December in southern California. And we're gonna do an AGM (annual general meeting) for NISA at the same time and make some decisions on format and schedule for next year. We're hoping that maybe the schedule will be out before the first of the year. I think you're gonna see that we're going to go to more regional play. I think the challenge that we've had this year is so many teams going cross country so often that it really became a financial burden on the clubs.

So I think you're gonna see that change for next year and I think you're gonna see quite a few changes that I don't really want to get into just yet and I wanna wait until we get through the AGM and then release some announcements.

But I think there's some very exciting things coming up for NISA and what we're doing.

Protagonist: You mentioned possibly having more regional play. One thing I noticed this year was that the schedule, minus the COVID issues and then minus the hurricane that hit Florida, there were a lot of breaks in the schedule. There were times where teams would have a month off between league games. Sometimes that was filled with NISA Independent Cup, sometimes there were other things, but there seemed to be times where teams were on break a lot. Was there any talk about having the schedule condensed a bit more to try and make that more tenable for clubs?

John Prutch: So one of the challenges that we had, and have, is putting together a schedule.

First of all, we do try to take a break in July for the Independent Cup. But you're right and we did have, I think we had two or three games that were affected by COVID a couple games by hurricane. But I think for the most part, what ends up happening is in many of our markets, we are second or third for the venue. So getting dates is not easy.

And so last year, if you recall, we got our schedule out very late. We couldn't command the dates that we necessarily needed. And then when you have to reschedule games, it becomes even more difficult because of the venue. I think you're gonna see us in the future go a little bit more towards markets where maybe we're first or second for a venue. You're gonna see us go more in stadium development. That's gonna be an emphasis of ours over the next two or three years.

There's just a massive shortage of professional pitches in this country. There's a shortage of pitches all over the country, youth as well. But from our perspective there's a real shortage of professional pitches in this country. So it makes scheduling extremely difficult. I think there were a lot of factors to the breaks.

Yeah you're right, there were breaks. I didn't like them and I don't think anybody liked them. But (there) wasn't a lot we could do about that and we got off to a pretty late start on our schedule and that's what contributed to it.

Protagonist: Let's talk about next year's teams. Chattanooga FC, they're going to MLS Next Pro. I think that's gonna be announced next week. Other teams, it feels like it's uncertain what's going to happen with them next year. Club de Lyon had multiple venue issues this year and then there were reports that players weren't getting paid. Gold Star FC, they seem to have lost their PTO and a couple other teams I know are already talking to USL League Two and NPSL.

Can you tell me what teams you have on the book for 2024?

John Prutch: I can tell you the ones that have been announced. But I'm not gonna tell you the ones that haven't been announced yet.

We have Monsoon coming in. Monsoon is (the) ownership group from (Valley United) that had the issues with fraud. We gave them their time off and now they're coming back.

Strikers are coming back under new ownership, same management, and (Irvine) Zeta. Those are the three that have been announced. But there are others that will be announced at our AGM or shortly thereafter.

Gold Star, specifically, there was an issue early on in the season. Probably 25% of the season was gone. And the owner, who is a great guy and has deep pockets, just decided this wasn't for him. And so we worked out a relationship where he would finish off this year and that we would bring in a new PTO which we have done. Effective the first year, there's a new PTO so Gold Star will be back.

Club de Lyon. I don't wanna get into any of the specifics but some of the stuff that was reported about Club de Lyon is false. Some of it is true and we're dealing with some of those issues. Fabian (Pourrain) has had some serious issues to deal with financially. But he's overcome those and will be playing next year. I think he'll be much stronger as a result. His venue issues some of those, you know, the Daytona thing was just not a good fit. Seminal had issues with an injury and so they shut down the facility and we had to find (an) alternative venue for him.

Fabian's taken a lot of heat this year. But I have a lot of respect for him and he will be back next year.

So I think those are the clubs you mentioned. I'm not sure if I missed anybody.

Protagonist: I mentioned Chattanooga too.

John Prutch: Chattanooga; That's their story to tell. I'll be free and want to talk about it once they've announced. I love Chattanooga as a club (and) as an organization. Rod Underwood and I go back a bit when we took over Stumptown. I interviewed a number of coaches and Rod was the guy. By far and away the best one that I talked to. He and I developed a relationship. We went through some difficult times there together and I'll tell you what he is a great individual and I wish him all the best. I wish Davis the best. I wish Alton the best.

But I really cannot comment on the future of Chattanooga. That's their, that's their story.

Protagonist: Since 2019, it feels like almost every season, major clubs leave to go to other leagues. Some people would look at that and say that's a failure of NISA but others might say that it is a testament that an independent league is needed for being a testing ground for these teams before they get promoted. What is your take on that?

John Prutch: So I look at it as… by the way, Miami, Oakland, Detroit City; I have a lot of respect for those clubs. They've done some really, really good work. By all rights they belong in the second division, right? But in this country, the only way to get to the second division is to write out a big check which is unfortunate. But that's the way we are in this country. There really isn't truly an open system.

I think that each of them made their own decisions based upon where they thought the club was at the time and what they thought their needs were for their market.

I'm proud to say that we were part of their growth pattern and we helped them on their way. I look at that as a real success for us. You hope that it doesn't happen too often. But sometimes clubs need to do that. They need to go test themselves. So I'm very proud of them actually.

Protagonist: The 2023 NISA Final is between two very different clubs. Both could be considered offshoot clubs of other teams. Both were in very different spots last season compared to one another. What’s that like to see as commissioner?

John Prutch: First of all, you know, if Michigan stars do win it we will have had four champions all from Michigan. There must be something in the water.

But I do believe that the Michigan stars and Detroit City. The thing that they have in common is they realized how to compete in this league and how to develop a core group of guys that had a common belief in the structure they were putting together. That's led to their success.

Then if on the other side, you look at Flower City and what Jimmy (Sullivan) has put together there. Rochester is a soccer town and it's a well known soccer town. But their first year they were at the bottom of the table. Which happens in NISA because clubs that come in, whether they are brand new clubs or whether they're experienced amateur clubs, have a hard time understanding the competition level.

But look at the improvement. (Coach Sullivan) went from bottom of the table to the sixth seed and now look at them. They got hot. That game against L A was a shocker. The game against Chattanooga - No one saw that coming. Chattanooga I know thought that they'd be hosting the championship match this weekend.

So kudos to those guys and you look at Flower City and you look at Michigan Stars and they play two different styles of game and that's what makes the game exciting. I think it's gonna be a good matchup. We'll see who comes out on top, but I think it's gonna be a good game.

Protagonist: The amateur side has been probably some of the most interesting things that NISA has been part of. Can you just talk about how important it is to have that connection with NISA Nation?

John Prutch: We decided early on that we needed to have a foundation. Some of our more successful clubs as we've talked about were amateur clubs that came into the pro ranks, got their legs under them, and then some of them moved on and some of them stayed.

For us, it was more about if you really want to build an open system, you gotta have a strong foundation. When we started NISA Nation we struggled a bit just getting our feet under us. The men's amateur system in this country is pretty well developed, although not to the level that maybe they should have been. Our vision was to have a full year amateur league with affiliates and that those affiliates would provide a couple levels of competition below them.

If you look at it as a whole, you have NISA Nation and you got EPSL and you've got all these other affiliates around the country. And there's seven different affiliates that are roughly 120 clubs competing at various levels for a prize, which is the NISA Nation National Championship.

Now, we have a long way to go, but a lot of our clubs in the future are gonna come from that system and that's what we want. We want to develop the coaches, the players, the referees at that level so that they can come up and play in the professional ranks.

So it's a very important part of what we do and we're starting to see a little bit of success there. We've got a long way to go, but we are starting to see the results that we really wanted. And I think making the change last year and bringing Matt Morse in to run NISA Nation for us has been a really good move. He's got a good staff. They're doing a good job.

We're very pleased with not only where it is but where it's gonna go.

Protagonist: Speaking of the amateur teams, the NISA Independent Cup. First off what is that going forward going to be for NISA? Is that something that NISA wants to keep doing or do you want to expand it? Second, Protagonist Soccer, recently reported that a couple of the Independent Cup winners were still awaiting payments. Do you have a comment on that?

John Prutch: *laughing* I don't want to make a comment on that because they're reporting (is) not totally accurate.

But anyway, on the Independent Cup itself. We did do the same format the last two years. At the AGM we're gonna recommend to the board a change in the format. Primarily the change in the format would do a couple of things.

One is, it would make the competition for the amateur clubs getting into the Independent Cup more difficult. So it's just not handed out, right? It would put them in more competition with our pro clubs. We'll see if that's what the board wants to do, the board realizes that we probably need to tweak the format. So we'll see what happens maybe in, I don't know, 30 days or so, we'll know. But I think it will change to some degree.

Protagonist: Do you like the system? Where the format is to win some money and then possibly double down?

John Prutch: Not really. I think playing for a trophy is nice and is great and I do think that amateur clubs should be rewarded if they can step up.

That's what develops players, right? If you happen to get into a group and there's, you know, three amateur, two amateur clubs that are just kind of layups and you roll all over them, that's not developing talent, that's not developing the players that we want. You walk away with some money but it's not what we want to do, right? We want to develop that talent and that comes from stiff competition.

Protagonist: Last month the Professional Soccer Referee Association (PSRA) released a statement saying that NISA was not paying its members for doing its games. That's the third time in three years that the PSRA has said something. Why does this keep happening and do you have a response?

John Prutch: Yeah. So it's not nearly as bad as they would like you to believe it is. There are reasons why they're vocal about it. That said, we are wrong. We got behind and we got caught up and that's on us. Our system that we used last year, and I don't want to get into the fallacies of the system that we use, but it was a problem for us. It was a problem for the referees. This year we improved the system and it's not perfect yet and so we're continuing to work on it.

So hopefully we won't get to that point where that is happening again. But I will tell you that referees we use, the assigners we use, are very important to us. Hopefully it won't happen again. But if it does, you know, we'll make it good.

Protagonist: The final on Saturday is going to be on FIFA+. NISA was ahead of the curve because even before Eleven Sports went off the air, you were already moving all of your games to FIFA+. Talk about that transition and how FIFA+ has been to NISA.

John Prutch: We saw (the demise of Eleven Sports) coming and so we moved over. To your point we were a bit ahead of the game. Our relationship with FIFA+ has been very good and it's a good relationship. And as a matter of fact, the semifinals and finals for NISA Nation are gonna be on FIFA+. First time FIFA+ anywhere in the world, has streamed an amateur match.

I'm really pleased with that and we are continuing and will continue to work with FIFA+ going forward. But there are also other things that we're looking at doing on the media side to enhance that relationship.

Protagonist: Finally I’d like to ask about the Women's Independent Soccer League (WISL). What is the update, do you have a time frame, and what teams are going to be taking part in it?

John Prutch: The first thing I'll say is that the Culture and Education Committee I think is very important to us. We've taken our time to really put that together because that's an integral part of what we believe professional soccer for women should be.

But that aside, at the AGM, we'll be making a decision on format. After the AGM (we’ll) be making some personnel announcements, relative to WISL. I'm confident that people will look at it and say ‘it took a bit but, you know, they got it right.’

I think we will start playing in the fall of next year. The first season will just be a tournament style and then we'll go into a, more of a regular season in 2025.

Protagonist: You’re a midwest guy. Do you like that every NISA Final has been in Michigan?

John Prutch: You know it's a discussion that happens quite often in the boardroom. Are we gonna continue to play chicken with the weather here? Right now they're saying it's gonna be nice, I guess, mid forties and sunshine, if that's nice, I guess.

I can't figure out why one of our Southern teams just can't win and so that we can go down south someplace, but I don't know. It'll be a good match, but I do wish we could go down south sometime.

- Michael Battista